Besides Gravatai incident and the Brazilian Official UFO Night, do you remember any other case in which jets were sent to intercept UFOs?
No, there were none that I remember. Besides, we had the habit of not commenting on things we could not prove. So we avoided talks on those cases because we lacked concrete data in order to identify the nature of those objects. There was also the issue of meteorological phenomena to be taken into consideration. Some balloons might reach incredible altitudes.
You’re right, but Cindacta radars and experienced jet pilots wouldn’t take one thing for another…
Sure, but every aspect must be considered. There is a meteorological phenomenon called St. Elmo’s fire, for example, which is a strong bluish light that can stood still or move. This one is often seen in cemiteries due to the decomposition of organic matter. The gas resulting from it generates a bluish light when in contact with the air. This is what we call St. Elmo’s fire.
There were many reports from pilots seeing the St. Elmo’s fire. However, what they usually describe are more likely to be associated with ufological occurrences. The foo-fighters at the II World War are an example.
All pilots have already seen the St. Elmo’s fire in the sky. I have seen it many times. It might even enter the aircraft and cross through it. I’ve seen it very often over the Amazon when flying a C-47 or a DC-3 for the Brazilian postal service. I have more than 2000 hours of flight in that region and witnessed many electrical storms, which may generate strange phenomena. There is a number of atmospheric effects to be considered – the electric fire or the St. Elmo’s fire is only one of those. The light rests at the tip of the helix, then jumps from one side to another before going away. We got even afraid of being burned. That happens to me several times. This is why pilots always think, “It’s the St. Elmo’s fire again, get ready” when there’s a light in the sky. However, not everything can be explained like that, since the St. Elmo’s fire is just a small luminous ball inside the cockpit. There are much larger lights. Anyway, any commercial pilot flying over 10.000 meters have experienced that.
There is another statement allegedly yours regarding the Brazilian Official UFO night. It says that FAB had recorded the event in video. Is it true?
No. Actually the whole event was registered in magnetic tapes, not in video. Radars have the ability to record everything they detect. Then we keep these recordings for 30 days, as I said before. After that we clear the magnetic tapes not to let them pile up.
Even recordings of an event which triggered an interception operation in 19 May 1986 were deleted?
When there’s something like that we normally wait a little more before deleting the recordings. Maybe 2 or 3 months. After that, recordings are deleted for the reasons I’ve already mentioned. But Cindacta has recorded things like that many times. Not once or twice, but many times. We always prepared reports and sent them without any comments, since we didn’t know what or how to explain.
Regarding this event or any other, have you ever been pressured by foreign governments to share information?
No. During my time as a minister that never happened, or it happened without my knowledge.
Brigadier Jose Carlos Pereira [See UFO 141 and 142] (EMAER) has already recorded hundreds of ufological sightings since the 1950s. Do you confirm that?
Well, Pereira was a chief of EMAER. Therefore, these materials were in his desk for him to access anytime he wanted.
In recent interviews he states that “it’s time to end UFO secrecy”, and “secret files on UFOs should be disclosed”. He firmly supports our campaign UFOs: Liberdade de Informação Já. What do you think about these statements?
I think there are two possible interpretations. First, we need to disclose the files in order to clarify what the phenomenon is. Second, this is necessary in order to avoid people saying we are hiding the truth. I can anticipate people saying, “the government hides mysterious phenomena from its people”. This is not true. So files must be opened at once in order to avoid this idea. We can not remain in an uncomfortable position regarding this issue.
Brigadier Pereira says exactly the same. He even says that people do not fear what is transparent, they fear what is opaque instead. He further says that the documents can not affect national security, do not pose a threat to the population and do not harm the privacy of people involved. Files must be disclosed. Do you agree with that?
No doubt about that. Actually, I didn’t open (the files) before, as a minister, because I was never asked to do so. If I were ever asked, I’d have them opened.
Would you do so even though they contain serious incidents such as the Official Night, in which FAB jets were sent to intercept objects of unknown nature?
Yes, even those cases must be disclosed. Note that jets were launched but could not even approach the objects. We are talking about UFOs [not mentioning “electronic anomalies” anymore], and our aircraft could not even get close to them.
Do you think such impossibility to intercept the objects was due to their alleged superior technology?
Yes, [that’s why] we could not even get close to those things which reach thousands of kilometers per hour in less than a second. Ozires Silva saw that, my wife did, and so did I. As I described before, there was a bright light standing still in the sky. I was watching and waiting for it to turn left or right, but it didn’t. My conclusion was that it was flying directly towards me, although it seemed to be not moving.
What did you think that time?
I’m realistic about these matters. All I wanted was to enter that “thing” and see how that works. This idea had already gone through my mind long before.
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